This one, I decided to flesh out my thoughts more with an in-depth response. Many others have written their own responses, and I still recommend reading them. For some of their answers, I felt like I would answer differently than they did, but even where it is the same, I wanted to add my voice. Here are links to other responses:
- In-depth replies from:
- In-depth positive evidence using a similar style that also addresses many criticisms
- Shorter analyses from:
- churchistrue
- Neal Rappleye (and part 2)
- Kevin Christensen (plus follow-up)
- Good observations on its approach rather than its content
The purpose of this post is for those who have read the CES Letter and wonder how a faithful Latter-day Saint responds to the concerns Jeremy brings up. I can't speak for everyone, but these are my own thoughts.
The CES Letter is probably best described as a Gish gallop meaning that it is easier to bring up criticisms than to actually answer them. Jeremy thinks that is an unfair attack given that there's no time limit. However, the term also applies to written debates too, since most people aren't going to dedicate the amount of time required and will get overwhelmed—and that's what makes it is a Gish gallop. But I am not being dismissive, I decided to take the time to go in and respond to everything. And I recommend that if there's anything you question, you don't have to take my word or Jeremy's word for it—you can research it for yourself.
And that's one thing I love about the gospel of Jesus Christ. No one forces you to believe anything you don't want to, and we all have access to revelation from Heavenly Father. With that in mind, let's jump in.
Last updated 4-Sep-24
The background of the letter is that it was written to a director in the Church Education System (CES). Jeremy indicated that this person was an acquaintance of his grandfather who approached him through email to ask for a list of questions. The Church Education System is over Seminary and Institute, which is religious instruction for high-school and college-age students, respectively. The Church Education System is also over the schools run by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: Brigham Young University (BYU), BYU-Idaho, BYU-Hawaii, and Ensign College. Jeremy has said that he felt like answers from this director would be more official than the other things that he had seen.
I should also point out that my purpose in this analysis isn't to prove my position true—while I believe that there is plenty of evidence to support the veracity of the Book of Mormon and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I also recognize that that these things don't really prove anything. My purpose here is not to prove my beliefs to be true, rather, I'm showing that the things the CES Letter brings up isn't proof of the opposite position, either. People seem to act as if the letter makes slam-dunk arguments, and that faith is impossible after learning the things it talks about. While I don't have all the answers, I want to show that there is room for faith. The simplest response is to show the weaknesses of the arguments, there are a lot of them. But some of the topics I have a lot of things to say, so I'll often bring in other things to consider on various topics.
I was originally going to publish as just one giant blog entry, but blogger doesn't like it when entries get that huge, so I'm breaking it up into sections.
I think I'll do similar to Jim Bennett, and color quotations from the CES letter, to distinguish them from other quotes I will be using. I'll use the color purple.
Introduction
[Name of CES Director Removed],
Thank you for responding to my grandfather's request to answer my concerns and questions and for offering your time with me. I appreciate it.
I’m interested in your thoughts and answers as I have been unable to find official answers from the Church for most of these issues. It is my hope that you’re going to have better answers than many of those given by unofficial apologists such as FairMormon and the Neal A. Maxwell Institute (formerly FARMS).I find the complaint about "unofficial apologists" a strange one—a phrase Jeremy will repeat throughout the letter. An apologist is someone who defends something, from the Latin apologia, "a speech in defense." Anyone can defend the Church, but he acts as though answers directly from the Church are somehow better. And actually, not even just from the Church—The Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship is under BYU, and is affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. But it is a third-party organization, so clearly, Jeremy is wanting to restrict his search to just things that come directly from the Church.
FAIR seems to have started out as a group of people who got tired of answering the same questions all the time, and wanted a centralized place for answers. (They have changed their name from FairMormon back to FAIR since the time the CES Letter was written.) They are just regular people like you and me, and perhaps that's why people like Jeremy don't like them. But at the same time, that's what makes them valuable: we need to hear what regular people think. And that's what I like about them. Further into the letter, Jeremy will later say that you don't need to be a scholar to criticize the Church. You don't—and you also don't need to be a scholar to defend the Church either.
The Maxwell Institute uses a scholarly approach, so I really don't understand the dislike for them, but I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinions. There's other groups out there, too. Jeff Lindsay was the first I encountered, he has a similar style to FAIR so people might not like him for the same reasons. My favorite is the Interpreter Foundation, which like the Maxwell Institute isn't just apologetic, but provides scholarly peer-reviewed articles on a wide variety of Latter-day Saint related topics. The Church lists a bunch of gospel study resources which includes faithful third-party sites like FAIR for convenience.
Anyway, the CES Letter itself follows after the unscholarly style of FAIR, so I don't think the criticism here is the tone or amount of research that goes into it, but rather just the fact it isn't published by the Church.
I think that is kind of a narrow-minded attitude, that perhaps represented a naïve belief that some members have, that "if it doesn't come from the Church, I'm not going to believe it." But the reality is that truth is everywhere. Jeremy seemed fine exploring books and websites critical of the Church for questions, so it is odd that he wanted to restrict himself to the Church for answers. I think the principle taught in D&C 58:26-29 applies here:
And actually, Church has provided answers to many controversial topics before, and Jeremy even referenced several of them in his original letter in the Other section. Since that time, the Gospel Topics essays were published, which made finding these answers much more convenient. Jeremy updated his letter to use these references instead, but he is still dissatisfied. So apparently his concern with FAIR wasn't that the answers weren't from the Church, but that he didn't like the answers that they gave, which is the reason he will give in his conclusion. With that being said, I still think it is a mistake to say, "I'm not going to believe ___ until the Church says so."26 For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.
27 Verily I say, men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness;
28 For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves. And inasmuch as men do good they shall in nowise lose their reward.
29 But he that doeth not anything until he is commanded, and receiveth a commandment with doubtful heart, and keepeth it with slothfulness, the same is damned.
But then, at the same time, Jeremy turns to a CES director, and even if he did reply, he still would not be providing an "official answer" from the Church. Maybe he was hoping he would point out some answer from the Church he had missed? If so, it doesn't have to be a CES director.
I'm inclined to think he does this intentionally—"I would have only looked to the Church for sources, but I [supposedly] couldn't find anything, so I was forced to go looking at anti-Mormon material! [And that's why it's okay for you to read this document too! Oh, but don't look at FAIR for some reason.]" But I prefer to have a positive outlook on people. Hanlon's razor is an adage that says, "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." Or in other words, instead of treating Jeremy as someone attacking the Church, I want to treat him as someone who misunderstands the Church. And that's how he presents himself, as someone looking for answers. However ill-intentioned Jeremy might actually be, I feel that this approach helps me focus better on those who want to read this, since they are probably reading it because they are looking for answers. Sometimes I might not do as well and make mistakes interpreting his questions and concerns, but I will try my best.
I think a healthy perspective for Latter-day Saints to have is to remember that we are all children of God fighting on the same side for Eternal Life. Satan is our enemy, not each other. If someone does something wrong, that doesn't make us enemies—instead, it is like they are wounded and need our help. We have passed though a veil of forgetfulness, so there are a lot of things we don't know, and it's okay to have questions.
Jeremy claimed to have been looking for answers to questions, and since his 2017 update, now he claims that these are "what the LDS Church does not want its members and investigators to know about its truth crisis." I want to show that this is incorrect. One thing I love about the Church is that we believe in accepting everything that is true. And it is possible to know the facts of the things Jeremy brings up and remain a faithful Latter-day Saint.
He also claims that his goal isn't to get people to leave the Church, but that members and investigators deserve to make a "fully informed" decision, knowing about the "skeletons in the closet" and so it is in that same spirit that I hope to help others be even more fully informed, and how a believing Latter-day Saints can respond to criticism.
The way that the CES Letter is written, it makes it sound as though Jeremy was actually looking for answers. Prior to publishing the letter, (and as he says in this paragraph) he was already describing himself as having left the Church. But at the same time, he was looking for advice on how to keep his children out of the Church, and how to "save them from Mormonism." He also said that he intentionally started the letter with the questions he did so that the reader would "get hooked immediately." Some have characterized the CES Letter as "just asking questions" but the evidence suggests that he was never interested in getting answers.I’m just going to be straightforward in sharing my concerns. Obviously, I’m a disaffected member who lost his testimony so it’s no secret which side I’m on at the moment. All this information is a result of over a year of intense research and an absolute rabid obsession with Joseph Smith and Church history. With this said, I’d be pretty arrogant and ignorant to say that I have all the information and that you don’t have answers. Like you, I put my pants on one leg at a time and I see through a glass darkly. You may have new information and/or a new perspective that I may not have heard or considered before. This is why I’m genuinely interested in what your answers and thoughts are to these issues.
Although he claims here to be "genuinely interested" in answers and thoughts from the CES director, Jeremy has been harsh towards FAIR and others who have provided answers and thoughts, rejecting their answers and doubling-down on his original criticisms. Which I suppose makes sense given the previous paragraph that he already didn't like the answers he had seen so far, and apparently he didn't learn anything new.
The letter's original subtitle was "Why I Lost My Testimony" but was removed in 2015 and then in 2017 became "My Search for Answers to my Mormon Doubts." When he described his 2017 update, he explicitly said that the letter is "a quick guide and high level overview on some of the biggest threats to the LDS Church's foundational truth claims and a starting point for many to initiate deeper research into the various issues and problems."
It is also interesting to note that here he is asking for "new information and/or an new perspective that I may not have heard or considered before" yet at the end of the letter, he will complain that the "unofficial apologists" presented a perspective that was foreign to what he was taught, so I'm not sure he really wanted a new perspective. Throughout the letter, it is clear that if he would change his perspective, he could find the answers he claims to be looking for, but it seems he would rather hold onto his preconceptions.
For these reasons, my response isn't directed toward Jeremy. While I of course hope he changes his mind some day, it seems clear that he has made his decision. Instead, my response is towards Latter-day Saints who are questioning their faith, so they can understand that answers are out there.
The quote he provides doesn't actually come from the linked article—the article cut off the "largely over these issues" part, and they also physically separated the answer from the question. The article instead didn't really say that people were leaving over Church history, but rather that "attrition has accelerated in the last five or 10 years, reflecting greater secularization of society" noting that other churches are facing the same problems, and also had positive things to say about Church growth. For the full quote, one would have had to instead search out a recording or transcript of Elder Jensen's fireside. But if they found that, then they would have also known that the next thing he said was:
I’ve decided to put down in writing just about all the major concerns that I have. I went through my notes from my past year of research and compiled them together. It doesn’t make sense for me to just lay down 5 concerns while also having 20 other concerns that legitimately challenge the truth claims of the LDS Church.
From the list, it appears that he only spent the year looking for questions, rather than answers. Most of these do not actually challenge the truth claims of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, rather, they challenge a particular set of assumptions: that Joseph Smith and other prophets should be perfect, that the scriptures are perfect and literal, and that God could not or would not do things that Jeremy disagrees with.
Writing my reply, I spent over a year of intense research, and these are the things I found to be helpful.
A quick description of my background might help you understand where I'm coming from. I was a very active and fully believing member my entire life up until around the summer of 2012. My grandpa already outlined my life events to you in his email so I think you get the idea that I accepted and embraced Mormonism.
In February of 2012, I was reading the news online when I came across the following news article: Mormonism Besieged by the Modern Age. In the article was information about a Q&A meeting at Utah State University that LDS Church Historian and General Authority, Elder Marlin K. Jensen, gave in late 2011. He was asked his thoughts regarding the effects of Google on membership and people who are "leaving in droves" over Church history.
Elder Marlin K. Jensen’s response:
“Maybe since Kirtland, we’ve never had a period of – I’ll call it apostasy, like we’re having now; largely over these issues…”
This truly shocked me. I didn’t understand what was going on or why people would leave “over history.” I started doing research and reading books like LDS historian and scholar Richard Bushman’s Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling and many others to try to better understand what was happening.
The ex-Mormon community picked up on this quote and has described the Church experiencing a "mass exodus" or people "leaving in droves" however, that is not correct. In an article published by the Washington Post the next day, Elder Marlin K. Jensen clarified, "to say we are experiencing some Titanic-like wave of apostasy is inaccurate," and in a later article Church spokesman Michael Purdy said that "those leaving the church are a fraction of 1 percent each year and it is a trend that is decreasing rather than increasing".
Elder Quentin L. Cook spoke on it in the April 2015 General Conference:
Some have asserted that more members are leaving the Church today and that there is more doubt and unbelief than in the past. This is simply not true. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has never been stronger. The number of members removing their names from the records of the Church has always been very small and is significantly less in recent years than in the past. The increase in demonstrably measurable areas, such as endowed members with a current temple recommend, adult full-tithe payers, and those serving missions, has been dramatic. Let me say again, the Church has never been stronger. But, “remember the worth of souls is great in the sight of God.” We reach out to everyone.
Anyway, on what Jeremy is actually talking about, assuming the timeline he gives is correct, he read the Reuter's article in February, and then that summer, he no longer considered himself a believing member. That lines up with how he began criticizing the Church on reddit that summer. It also lines up with how in November he said that he "left the church a few months ago" and was then seeking advice for his family. But that does mean that when he says he spent "over a year of intense research" it was largely after he had stopped believing. When I first read the CES letter, it sounded like he left as a result of his research, and maybe the first part was, but certainly not after the whole year.
The quote he provides doesn't actually come from the linked article—the article cut off the "largely over these issues" part, and they also physically separated the answer from the question. The article instead didn't really say that people were leaving over Church history, but rather that "attrition has accelerated in the last five or 10 years, reflecting greater secularization of society" noting that other churches are facing the same problems, and also had positive things to say about Church growth. For the full quote, one would have had to instead search out a recording or transcript of Elder Jensen's fireside. But if they found that, then they would have also known that the next thing he said was:
So we do have another initiative that we’ve called “Answers to Gospel Questions.” We’re trying to figure out exactly what channels to deliver it in and exactly what format to put it in, but we want to have a place where people can go.This seems like it is referring to the Gospel Topics essays, which began to be published on the Church website at the end of 2013. This is exactly the sort of thing that Jeremy claimed he was looking for, but as we will see, it seems he was unsatisfied with what the Church had to say after all.
The following issues are among my main concerns.
As my own preamble before getting into the concerns, I think the first two serve as an example for the remainder of the document, that it appears that there was little to no thought put into answering these concerns, and just a little bit of critical thinking could answer almost all of them.
Next: Book of Mormon
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